1
00:00:02,240 --> 00:00:05,240
foreign

2
00:00:06,320 --> 00:00:11,499
[Music]

3
00:00:16,240 --> 00:00:20,640
this morning the reason we're all here

4
00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:23,199
um we've had a few technical issues with

5
00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:24,880
this too um jono bacon is a leading

6
00:00:23,199 --> 00:00:26,640
community and collaboration speaker

7
00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:28,160
author and podcaster

8
00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:30,080
he is the founder of jono bacon

9
00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:32,160
consulting and provides community

10
00:00:30,080 --> 00:00:33,680
strategy and execution workflow and

11
00:00:32,160 --> 00:00:35,200
other services

12
00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:38,079
he previously served as director of

13
00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:39,600
community at github canonical xprize and

14
00:00:38,079 --> 00:00:40,399
open advantage

15
00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:41,600
now

16
00:00:40,399 --> 00:00:43,360
the problems we've had is that john is

17
00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:44,800
stuck in a hotel with sketchy wi-fi so

18
00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:46,719
he'll be playing we'll be playing a

19
00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:48,480
pre-recorded session

20
00:00:46,719 --> 00:00:51,360
of his talk however with luck we have

21
00:00:48,480 --> 00:00:53,520
him here now to um just say hi

22
00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:55,760
and um we'll be going on to your keynote

23
00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:57,840
shortly which is titled the conflict and

24
00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:59,680
burnout survival guide handling when

25
00:00:57,840 --> 00:01:00,559
things go wrong how you doing this

26
00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:02,480
morning

27
00:01:00,559 --> 00:01:04,640
oh pretty good i was i was really

28
00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:06,720
tempted to just kind of like do this

29
00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:08,080
kind of like

30
00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:09,520
just pretend my mic's not working just

31
00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:11,360
to screw with you all but so that would

32
00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:13,200
be me

33
00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:14,799
but this morning

34
00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:16,400
wouldn't feel it

35
00:01:14,799 --> 00:01:19,119
all right so we might we

36
00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:22,000
start the video now if we can and we'll

37
00:01:19,119 --> 00:01:24,320
come back um in you know 40-ish 45

38
00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:24,320
minutes

39
00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:28,960
thanks a lot

40
00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:30,720
hello my friends and thank you for

41
00:01:28,960 --> 00:01:33,520
joining me today for my session here at

42
00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:35,920
lca i'm so stoked to be here lca is one

43
00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:37,439
of my favorite conferences on the planet

44
00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:39,439
um i've had the good fortune to go to

45
00:01:37,439 --> 00:01:41,759
two of them in person and of course here

46
00:01:39,439 --> 00:01:43,520
we are virtually um but thank you so

47
00:01:41,759 --> 00:01:44,720
much to the lca team for inviting me to

48
00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:46,320
come and do a keynote they're such a

49
00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:47,680
wonderful team and they really work hard

50
00:01:46,320 --> 00:01:50,159
to put on a great event so make sure you

51
00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:51,360
give them all a big fist bump um as you

52
00:01:50,159 --> 00:01:52,960
go through the rest of the event all

53
00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:55,360
right

54
00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:57,040
now uh if you're wondering who on earth

55
00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:59,360
i am my name is john and bacon i've been

56
00:01:57,040 --> 00:02:01,759
around open source since 1998 i used to

57
00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:03,200
lead community for the ubuntu project uh

58
00:02:01,759 --> 00:02:05,439
when i was at canonical and i've also

59
00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:06,960
led community for github and xprize and

60
00:02:05,439 --> 00:02:08,399
these days i'm a consultant i work with

61
00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:10,239
lots and lots of different companies to

62
00:02:08,399 --> 00:02:11,920
help them build really engaging and

63
00:02:10,239 --> 00:02:13,760
productive communities okay now when the

64
00:02:11,920 --> 00:02:15,840
lca team reached out and they said what

65
00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:17,200
do you want to speak about um i wanted

66
00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:19,120
to talk about a topic that's near and

67
00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:21,599
dear to my heart and that is how to deal

68
00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:23,760
with the underbelly of human

69
00:02:21,599 --> 00:02:26,239
collaboration right how to deal with

70
00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:28,480
conflict resolution how to deal with um

71
00:02:26,239 --> 00:02:30,239
burnout and crises okay so what i'm

72
00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:31,680
going to be covering in today's session

73
00:02:30,239 --> 00:02:32,959
are some really practical things that

74
00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:34,239
you can put into practice when you have

75
00:02:32,959 --> 00:02:36,239
to deal with a crisis when you have to

76
00:02:34,239 --> 00:02:37,840
deal with conflict resolution or when

77
00:02:36,239 --> 00:02:39,760
you or somebody else may be burning out

78
00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:41,120
so let's dig right in

79
00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:43,519
all right now before i go on i want to

80
00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:44,720
make sure something very very clear okay

81
00:02:43,519 --> 00:02:46,319
because i'm going to be touching on some

82
00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:47,760
elements of human psychology especially

83
00:02:46,319 --> 00:02:49,519
when i talk about burnout a little bit

84
00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:52,800
later on and i want to make it very

85
00:02:49,519 --> 00:02:55,920
clear that i am not a doctor okay uh

86
00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:58,080
don't take advice on on on health

87
00:02:55,920 --> 00:03:00,239
matters and mental health matters from a

88
00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:02,319
dude on the internet okay go and talk to

89
00:03:00,239 --> 00:03:03,760
a medical professional if you do need to

90
00:03:02,319 --> 00:03:05,360
speak to them um

91
00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:07,040
some elements of burnout can get kind of

92
00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:08,159
dangerous and

93
00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:09,440
there's no shame there's no

94
00:03:08,159 --> 00:03:10,720
embarrassment in going and talking to

95
00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:12,560
you talking to your doctor and saying i

96
00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:13,599
need some help i need some guidance all

97
00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:15,120
right so i just wanted to get that

98
00:03:13,599 --> 00:03:16,640
caveat out there

99
00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:19,440
now when we think about these more

100
00:03:16,640 --> 00:03:21,680
challenging elements of communities um

101
00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:24,480
um i like to think of it as kind of

102
00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:25,840
the pyramid of suck

103
00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:27,920
is what i'd probably call it i just

104
00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:29,599
named it there on the spot

105
00:03:27,920 --> 00:03:32,560
and i break it down into three layers

106
00:03:29,599 --> 00:03:34,319
and the the size of each layer reflects

107
00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:35,519
how much it tends to impact us right so

108
00:03:34,319 --> 00:03:37,680
at the top of the pyramid we've got

109
00:03:35,519 --> 00:03:40,319
crisis management that's when something

110
00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:42,480
disastrous happens maybe downtime or

111
00:03:40,319 --> 00:03:44,720
there's a big security vulnerability or

112
00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:47,120
there's a big interpersonal issue inside

113
00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:49,280
of a community um it doesn't happen all

114
00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:51,360
that often but it can be terrifying when

115
00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:54,159
it does happen the middle layer is

116
00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:55,519
conflict resolution this is when we uh

117
00:03:54,159 --> 00:03:56,720
when two people don't get on when

118
00:03:55,519 --> 00:03:58,840
there's personality conflicts or

119
00:03:56,720 --> 00:04:01,040
differences in opinion or creative

120
00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:03,200
disagreements um that definitely impacts

121
00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:04,799
more people but then what impacts a lot

122
00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:06,400
more people the stress and burnout in

123
00:04:04,799 --> 00:04:08,080
fact stress and burnout will impact

124
00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:10,480
everybody at some point it's not a

125
00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:12,159
matter of if it's a matter of when okay

126
00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:13,439
so i'm gonna go through each of these

127
00:04:12,159 --> 00:04:15,439
three different layers and provide some

128
00:04:13,439 --> 00:04:16,720
really practical recommendations as i go

129
00:04:15,439 --> 00:04:18,560
through it okay one thing you want to

130
00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:19,680
make very clear is that this session

131
00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:21,759
session that you're watching right now

132
00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:23,759
as i'm talking to you is pre-recorded

133
00:04:21,759 --> 00:04:26,400
just so we can avoid any networking

134
00:04:23,759 --> 00:04:28,320
issues because uh while this event is on

135
00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:31,280
i uh at the last minute had to make a

136
00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:32,560
trip um to tahoe and the there's all

137
00:04:31,280 --> 00:04:35,120
kinds of challenges we're staying in a

138
00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:37,520
hotel with internet uh you know the

139
00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:38,720
quality of your bandwidth in a hotel and

140
00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:41,919
all kinds of things so i'm recording

141
00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:43,440
this bit but when i finish my session uh

142
00:04:41,919 --> 00:04:44,960
my presentation here i am going to be

143
00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:46,639
available online to answer your

144
00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:48,720
questions all right so make sure you get

145
00:04:46,639 --> 00:04:50,160
your questions in and i'll try and

146
00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:52,000
answer them as we're going through it

147
00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:53,600
okay so as i'm going through the session

148
00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:56,240
get your questions in and i will answer

149
00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:58,800
them in the chat all right all right

150
00:04:56,240 --> 00:05:01,120
let's get back to it so

151
00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:02,720
let's start out with with uh crisis

152
00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:04,639
management so how do we deal with a

153
00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:06,080
crisis so let's assume for the sake of

154
00:05:04,639 --> 00:05:07,199
argument that you're you've got an open

155
00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:10,000
source project and let's say there's a

156
00:05:07,199 --> 00:05:11,440
big security vulnerability a log 4j type

157
00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:12,400
situation how do you deal with that well

158
00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:14,479
this can be

159
00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:16,639
terrifying when these moments happen

160
00:05:14,479 --> 00:05:18,800
there you know all eyes are on you and

161
00:05:16,639 --> 00:05:20,639
it can be embarrassing and it can cause

162
00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:22,240
all kinds of anxiety a lot of people

163
00:05:20,639 --> 00:05:24,080
when that when this happens they tend to

164
00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:26,240
just kind of clam up and they don't know

165
00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:28,080
how to deal with it okay the first thing

166
00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:29,600
we need to do when we deal with any kind

167
00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:32,320
of crisis

168
00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:34,400
is to be humble okay is to accept that

169
00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:36,160
we don't have all the answers human

170
00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:37,680
beings are fallible

171
00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:39,440
and what we need to do is to figure out

172
00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:42,400
what's going on and to rectify it as

173
00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:44,000
quickly and as easily as possible okay

174
00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:47,919
all too often what happens when the

175
00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:50,000
crisis goes down is that um

176
00:05:47,919 --> 00:05:52,240
is that let's say a company a crisis

177
00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:54,800
impacts a company what they do is they

178
00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:57,120
lock off all forms of communication they

179
00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:59,120
tell their pr team to tell journalists

180
00:05:57,120 --> 00:06:00,639
to go away they try to rectify the

181
00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:02,960
crisis and then they publish some kind

182
00:06:00,639 --> 00:06:04,720
of groveling apology on their blog

183
00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:06,479
afterwards and it's not a particularly

184
00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:08,639
great way of managing things

185
00:06:06,479 --> 00:06:11,840
a great way of managing things

186
00:06:08,639 --> 00:06:13,120
was was epitomized by gitlab so one

187
00:06:11,840 --> 00:06:15,199
thing that happens a number of years ago

188
00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:17,280
gitlab they had an issue where one of

189
00:06:15,199 --> 00:06:19,919
their engineers fat fingered an update

190
00:06:17,280 --> 00:06:21,759
and basically um their service went down

191
00:06:19,919 --> 00:06:24,080
and they went through multiple backups

192
00:06:21,759 --> 00:06:26,160
to try and rectify and all the backups

193
00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:28,160
were failing it was a real issue instead

194
00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:30,000
of get lab battening down the hatches

195
00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:32,639
what they did instead was they

196
00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:35,199
kickstarted a live google doc

197
00:06:32,639 --> 00:06:37,600
um where they were debugging what was

198
00:06:35,199 --> 00:06:39,680
going on they had a live youtube stream

199
00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:41,680
they included their community in trying

200
00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:42,479
to rectify and resolve the situation

201
00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:44,160
especially when they were trying to

202
00:06:42,479 --> 00:06:45,759
figure out what's going on and it was

203
00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:48,080
incredibly refreshing and what actually

204
00:06:45,759 --> 00:06:50,000
resulted in was hashtags on twitter

205
00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:51,759
where people were like hugs forget lab

206
00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:53,120
because it was so nice that they were

207
00:06:51,759 --> 00:06:55,039
inclusive in how and how they were

208
00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:57,120
dealing with this okay awesome and

209
00:06:55,039 --> 00:06:58,479
credit where credit's due to gitlab so

210
00:06:57,120 --> 00:07:00,160
when you're thinking about managing a

211
00:06:58,479 --> 00:07:01,520
crisis situation these are the steps i'd

212
00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:03,280
recommend you go through and hopefully

213
00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:04,639
you don't have to do this very often

214
00:07:03,280 --> 00:07:07,120
hopefully you can avoid these kinds of

215
00:07:04,639 --> 00:07:09,039
crises but the first step is to stop the

216
00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:11,120
rot okay and that is if there's

217
00:07:09,039 --> 00:07:13,120
something going on if there's let's say

218
00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:14,960
you've got a um

219
00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:17,360
a piece of software in in a project

220
00:07:14,960 --> 00:07:19,199
that's let's say in a in a deployment

221
00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:21,599
that isn't working or let's say there's

222
00:07:19,199 --> 00:07:23,280
a module in in an open source project

223
00:07:21,599 --> 00:07:24,560
that's having some issues the first

224
00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:26,080
thing you need to do is to try and stop

225
00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:27,680
it as much as possible now this is going

226
00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:29,520
to vary in different situations if

227
00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:30,880
there's a security vulnerability you

228
00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:32,639
know you can't roll that security

229
00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:34,400
vulnerability out immediately right but

230
00:07:32,639 --> 00:07:36,639
if you've got a problem with a piece of

231
00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:38,000
infrastructure that's that's you know

232
00:07:36,639 --> 00:07:39,520
erroring for example taking the

233
00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:41,919
infrastructure down to fix it is a good

234
00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:43,039
way of stopping the rot okay

235
00:07:41,919 --> 00:07:44,960
the second thing you're going to want to

236
00:07:43,039 --> 00:07:46,720
then do is to investigate and again

237
00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:48,319
where possible where appropriate try and

238
00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:50,639
include your community try and include

239
00:07:48,319 --> 00:07:51,840
your customers in this right one thing i

240
00:07:50,639 --> 00:07:54,000
always like to say in these kinds of

241
00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:55,919
situations when i advise clients on this

242
00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:57,759
is just

243
00:07:55,919 --> 00:07:59,520
be vulnerable right tell them like look

244
00:07:57,759 --> 00:08:01,199
we're human beings right human beings

245
00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:03,440
make mistakes

246
00:08:01,199 --> 00:08:04,800
our first and um

247
00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:06,160
most important priority right now is

248
00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:09,039
just to understand what's going on we're

249
00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:10,800
not interested in assigning blame or

250
00:08:09,039 --> 00:08:12,400
throwing shame at people just want to

251
00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:15,199
figure out what's going on all right so

252
00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:16,479
investigate what's happening um and and

253
00:08:15,199 --> 00:08:17,919
one of the best things you can do is to

254
00:08:16,479 --> 00:08:19,840
create like a shared channel like a

255
00:08:17,919 --> 00:08:21,680
incident response channel on something

256
00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:23,599
like slack or an irc where you can start

257
00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:25,840
pulling some of this information

258
00:08:23,599 --> 00:08:28,240
the third step then is to identify some

259
00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:29,759
short-term solutions okay

260
00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:31,120
now

261
00:08:29,759 --> 00:08:33,120
again one thing that can happen when

262
00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:34,399
that when a crisis kind of goes down is

263
00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:35,760
that people can

264
00:08:34,399 --> 00:08:37,440
um

265
00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:39,120
often like switch everything off and

266
00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:40,479
shut everything down and then go away

267
00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:43,039
and come up with a much

268
00:08:40,479 --> 00:08:44,159
longer term kind of resolution to it but

269
00:08:43,039 --> 00:08:45,440
sometimes

270
00:08:44,159 --> 00:08:46,800
the first thing you need to do is

271
00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:48,160
acknowledge it and just say we're really

272
00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:50,000
sorry something's happening we're not

273
00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:51,760
entirely sure what's happening right now

274
00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:53,120
you can go here to this google doc which

275
00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:55,279
we've opened up and you can see updates

276
00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:56,640
as it's going on and then as you start

277
00:08:55,279 --> 00:08:58,480
figuring out what's happening what's

278
00:08:56,640 --> 00:09:00,240
causing this crisis then you can start

279
00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:02,080
putting in place some solutions some

280
00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:03,839
short-term solutions that can rectify it

281
00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:06,399
okay but as you're doing this you're

282
00:09:03,839 --> 00:09:09,440
continuing to investigate all right

283
00:09:06,399 --> 00:09:10,880
then what happens is once you've kind of

284
00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:13,760
put in place some of those solutions and

285
00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:15,680
the crisis has been somewhat mitigated

286
00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:17,519
the best thing you can do now

287
00:09:15,680 --> 00:09:18,959
is to not stop there it's not saying

288
00:09:17,519 --> 00:09:21,120
okay now we've got things up and running

289
00:09:18,959 --> 00:09:22,720
like gitlab didn't just you know get

290
00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:24,560
their service back online and that was

291
00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:26,720
it what they did is they continued to

292
00:09:24,560 --> 00:09:27,519
evaluate what happened and they put in

293
00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:30,000
place

294
00:09:27,519 --> 00:09:31,200
measures and workflows uh to make sure

295
00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:32,640
that it didn't happen again in the

296
00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:35,279
future in fact it's not happened again

297
00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:37,279
since then okay so this is kind of the

298
00:09:35,279 --> 00:09:38,880
cherry on top is that as you're

299
00:09:37,279 --> 00:09:40,880
incorporating and including your

300
00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:42,640
audience in ex trying to figure out

301
00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:44,560
what's going on investigating it and

302
00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:46,399
then and then you present a solution to

303
00:09:44,560 --> 00:09:47,440
rectify the issue with it with with the

304
00:09:46,399 --> 00:09:49,519
crisis

305
00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:52,080
then what you do is you you you continue

306
00:09:49,519 --> 00:09:54,160
and say okay well that went down that

307
00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:55,920
sucked now we've put in place these

308
00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:58,000
three or four different things that will

309
00:09:55,920 --> 00:10:00,080
hopefully rectify this from or prevent

310
00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:00,959
this from happening again in the future

311
00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:02,320
okay

312
00:10:00,959 --> 00:10:04,000
and then what you do

313
00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:05,600
is further down the line maybe three or

314
00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:08,240
four months down the line is you review

315
00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:09,839
it and you continue to refine it okay

316
00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:11,440
so that's the summary of how i would

317
00:10:09,839 --> 00:10:14,399
recommend you wreck you you you deal

318
00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:16,880
with a crisis stop the rot investigate

319
00:10:14,399 --> 00:10:18,720
what's going on okay provide some

320
00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:20,560
short-term solutions

321
00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:22,160
to just get things back up and running

322
00:10:20,560 --> 00:10:24,160
provide some long-term solutions as a

323
00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:26,160
preventative measure and then regularly

324
00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:27,200
review and refine it all right make

325
00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:28,399
sense

326
00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:31,519
thumbs up

327
00:10:28,399 --> 00:10:34,959
yep okay great

328
00:10:31,519 --> 00:10:36,560
let's now move on to our second part of

329
00:10:34,959 --> 00:10:39,279
uh of the

330
00:10:36,560 --> 00:10:40,560
the triangle of suck

331
00:10:39,279 --> 00:10:43,920
i think i'm gonna stick with this name

332
00:10:40,560 --> 00:10:45,760
the triangle of suck i like that um

333
00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:47,440
all right i'm getting distracted now i'm

334
00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:48,560
thinking should i register domain should

335
00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:50,399
i

336
00:10:48,560 --> 00:10:53,279
someone already right now is probably

337
00:10:50,399 --> 00:10:54,880
registering triangleofsuck.com

338
00:10:53,279 --> 00:10:56,320
it probably already exists i actually

339
00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:58,240
don't go to that website it's probably

340
00:10:56,320 --> 00:10:59,839
going to be something terrible all right

341
00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:01,600
so let's now talk about conflict

342
00:10:59,839 --> 00:11:03,760
resolution

343
00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:05,279
now this is again this is something that

344
00:11:03,760 --> 00:11:06,240
is kind of inevitable this is going to

345
00:11:05,279 --> 00:11:07,120
happen

346
00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:09,519
um

347
00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:11,279
in your community or in your project in

348
00:11:09,519 --> 00:11:13,040
your family and your business

349
00:11:11,279 --> 00:11:16,079
at some point okay

350
00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:17,920
and the question that i always have when

351
00:11:16,079 --> 00:11:20,880
you kind of come into a

352
00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:22,640
a conflict uh scenario

353
00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:24,320
and i always ask myself this uh

354
00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:26,720
privately is

355
00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:28,959
why can't we all just get along right

356
00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:30,560
like why is it that this has occurred in

357
00:11:28,959 --> 00:11:32,880
the first place we're going to talk in a

358
00:11:30,560 --> 00:11:35,920
second about um how we rectify and

359
00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:38,160
resolve a conflict scenario but what are

360
00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:39,920
the causes of

361
00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:42,800
these people kind of not getting on and

362
00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:44,720
there being this this this firing flame

363
00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:46,720
between them and this can be conflict

364
00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:48,640
between two people it could be conflict

365
00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:51,040
between a couple of groups multiple

366
00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:53,200
people um there's all kinds of forms in

367
00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:55,360
which in which conflict can can can

368
00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:56,720
manifest okay but let's walk through

369
00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:59,120
some of the typical reasons why

370
00:11:56,720 --> 00:12:01,360
conflicts can occur all right the first

371
00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:03,680
one is unclear expectations and that is

372
00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:04,639
that okay i was expecting you to do this

373
00:12:03,680 --> 00:12:06,320
thing

374
00:12:04,639 --> 00:12:08,160
and you were expecting me to do this

375
00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:09,839
thing and then something completely

376
00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:11,519
different happened and then there's

377
00:12:09,839 --> 00:12:13,519
frustration there and we see this all of

378
00:12:11,519 --> 00:12:17,040
the time this is the most common cause

379
00:12:13,519 --> 00:12:18,160
of conflict is unclear expectations is

380
00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:19,760
that um

381
00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:21,279
you know let's say one person was

382
00:12:19,760 --> 00:12:22,639
expecting this other person to work in a

383
00:12:21,279 --> 00:12:24,959
project and they didn't actually work in

384
00:12:22,639 --> 00:12:26,800
it and then you know the work didn't get

385
00:12:24,959 --> 00:12:29,120
done and that can cause some underlying

386
00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:30,959
issues what often happens with conflict

387
00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:32,959
is let's say somebody's got unclear

388
00:12:30,959 --> 00:12:35,279
expectations about you know what was

389
00:12:32,959 --> 00:12:36,800
actually gonna be done by somebody what

390
00:12:35,279 --> 00:12:38,320
can often happen

391
00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:39,360
is that you get frustrated by that and

392
00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:40,880
then you kind of think i'm not going to

393
00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:43,120
make a big deal of this and you bury it

394
00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:45,519
down okay

395
00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:47,279
um and then if this keeps happening over

396
00:12:45,519 --> 00:12:49,519
and over again then it all comes up and

397
00:12:47,279 --> 00:12:51,440
it manifests in a complex scenario i'll

398
00:12:49,519 --> 00:12:53,680
provide a stupid little example of what

399
00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:55,760
i'm talking about here um when i was in

400
00:12:53,680 --> 00:12:57,680
one of my previous bands i played a

401
00:12:55,760 --> 00:13:00,240
metal band called baron carter should go

402
00:12:57,680 --> 00:13:02,880
and check us out on spotify or wherever

403
00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:04,959
um but i i used to play in a band called

404
00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:06,560
seraphidian when i lived in the uk

405
00:13:04,959 --> 00:13:09,120
and um i used to go and pick our

406
00:13:06,560 --> 00:13:11,200
guitarist up and then drop him off uh

407
00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:13,680
after band practice and he never said

408
00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:15,519
thanks to me and it used to bug me but i

409
00:13:13,680 --> 00:13:17,519
was like don't be pathetic like why

410
00:13:15,519 --> 00:13:18,959
would you say that to him and it never

411
00:13:17,519 --> 00:13:20,720
it i never mentioned it but every time

412
00:13:18,959 --> 00:13:22,399
he didn't say thanks it bugged me and

413
00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:24,000
bugged me and bugged me and bugged me

414
00:13:22,399 --> 00:13:25,760
and then eventually i just come i

415
00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:27,680
completely ranted it and he was just

416
00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:30,560
like dude why don't you say something

417
00:13:27,680 --> 00:13:31,920
i'm sorry i just i didn't realize okay

418
00:13:30,560 --> 00:13:33,839
that's what happens all the time in

419
00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:36,079
conflict all right so unclear

420
00:13:33,839 --> 00:13:38,639
expectations now

421
00:13:36,079 --> 00:13:40,240
another cause of of uh conflict can be

422
00:13:38,639 --> 00:13:41,680
communication issues

423
00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:43,360
of course in communities we have people

424
00:13:41,680 --> 00:13:44,240
coming from many different parts of the

425
00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:47,360
world

426
00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:49,760
um um and you know and different levels

427
00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:51,199
of experience with with communication so

428
00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:53,199
people are talking across different

429
00:13:51,199 --> 00:13:56,000
languages people come from different

430
00:13:53,199 --> 00:13:56,720
backgrounds even different ages right

431
00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:58,480
like

432
00:13:56,720 --> 00:14:00,000
even just here in the in the us right

433
00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:01,440
there's it's kind of well known it's a

434
00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:02,399
bit of a stereotype but i think it's

435
00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:03,920
actually true

436
00:14:02,399 --> 00:14:05,199
that people on the east coast are much

437
00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:06,880
blunter

438
00:14:05,199 --> 00:14:08,800
a much more blunt and direct than people

439
00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:10,800
on the west coast right

440
00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:13,040
i've noticed as another

441
00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:14,639
generalization that and this is one of

442
00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:16,079
the things i love actually is i've

443
00:14:14,639 --> 00:14:17,440
worked with a bunch of israeli companies

444
00:14:16,079 --> 00:14:19,040
one things i love about working with

445
00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:21,120
israelis is

446
00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:22,639
israelis are really direct like there's

447
00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:24,399
no screwing around you just kind of get

448
00:14:22,639 --> 00:14:26,000
on with things right but i've worked

449
00:14:24,399 --> 00:14:27,680
with various california companies where

450
00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:29,519
sometimes people beat around the bush a

451
00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:30,399
little bit more so these communication

452
00:14:29,519 --> 00:14:32,720
issues

453
00:14:30,399 --> 00:14:34,399
are pretty normal okay and sometimes

454
00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:36,320
people don't like how they communicate

455
00:14:34,399 --> 00:14:37,839
with each other like some somebody might

456
00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:39,279
not like somebody being pretty blunt or

457
00:14:37,839 --> 00:14:41,199
somebody may feel that somebody's not

458
00:14:39,279 --> 00:14:43,360
being blunt enough this can cause

459
00:14:41,199 --> 00:14:47,120
conflict all right another issue can be

460
00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:48,639
uncertainty um and anxiety is especially

461
00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:50,079
an element of this you know if you're

462
00:14:48,639 --> 00:14:51,760
working on a project you're not sure if

463
00:14:50,079 --> 00:14:53,519
it's going to work or

464
00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:54,800
if if you've made a decision in an open

465
00:14:53,519 --> 00:14:56,480
source project

466
00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:58,560
to go down a particular architectural

467
00:14:56,480 --> 00:14:59,760
path and you're not sure if this is the

468
00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:01,920
right choice

469
00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:03,199
that can cause nerves and anxiety and

470
00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:05,199
sometimes people can worry about how

471
00:15:03,199 --> 00:15:08,800
that's going to reflect on them as well

472
00:15:05,199 --> 00:15:11,600
another another issue that can impact

473
00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:13,360
conflict is power imbalances every room

474
00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:15,680
you walk into there's some kind of power

475
00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:17,120
imbalance right so classic example would

476
00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:18,959
be a job interview if you go for an

477
00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:20,800
interview at a job person sitting on the

478
00:15:18,959 --> 00:15:22,639
other side of the desk who who you want

479
00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:23,680
the job who's potentially going to offer

480
00:15:22,639 --> 00:15:25,360
you the job

481
00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:27,120
they've got the power in the room right

482
00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:28,240
that's how the interview dynamic tends

483
00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:29,600
to work

484
00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:30,800
but there's power everywhere there's

485
00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:32,000
power at this conference between the

486
00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:33,519
people who run the conference and the

487
00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:34,959
people who are attending the conference

488
00:15:33,519 --> 00:15:36,320
there's power between the fact that i'm

489
00:15:34,959 --> 00:15:38,079
the keynote speaker and i'm speaking to

490
00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:39,759
you and you're the attendees i mean

491
00:15:38,079 --> 00:15:42,639
frankly

492
00:15:39,759 --> 00:15:44,320
there is no actual power with that

493
00:15:42,639 --> 00:15:46,480
but there's a perceived power oh the

494
00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:48,240
keynote that person knows what they're

495
00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:49,519
talking about they have influence in our

496
00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:51,519
community and things like that so these

497
00:15:49,519 --> 00:15:53,199
power imbalances are everywhere

498
00:15:51,519 --> 00:15:55,279
and when people feel like the imbalance

499
00:15:53,199 --> 00:15:57,360
isn't fair then that again can cause

500
00:15:55,279 --> 00:15:58,880
conflict another issue and i already

501
00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:00,320
kind of covered this is culture you know

502
00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:02,639
people come from different parts of the

503
00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:05,040
world much as we live in a pretty

504
00:16:02,639 --> 00:16:07,199
homogenized internet we all come from

505
00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:09,199
different backgrounds like i i was born

506
00:16:07,199 --> 00:16:10,800
in the north of england and when i moved

507
00:16:09,199 --> 00:16:12,800
to the south of england when i was 11

508
00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:15,839
years old it was a totally different

509
00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:18,240
culture right um and it was like 200

510
00:16:15,839 --> 00:16:20,000
miles apart okay and just and then when

511
00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:21,680
you think about people who live in

512
00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:24,240
different parts of the world you know

513
00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:26,800
the middle east or asia pacific or

514
00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:28,000
europe or america or africa or wherever

515
00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:29,759
we all come from different cultural

516
00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:31,680
backgrounds different heritages

517
00:16:29,759 --> 00:16:34,079
different norms all of these things can

518
00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:35,839
cause issues okay so how do we go about

519
00:16:34,079 --> 00:16:39,199
resolving this like what what's the best

520
00:16:35,839 --> 00:16:41,120
thing that we can do to resolve conflict

521
00:16:39,199 --> 00:16:43,199
well the first thing that i would

522
00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:44,480
recommend you do and this is this is the

523
00:16:43,199 --> 00:16:47,519
job for you

524
00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:49,199
is to be a facilitator every conflict

525
00:16:47,519 --> 00:16:51,920
situation needs somebody who's gonna be

526
00:16:49,199 --> 00:16:54,000
able to say okay i'm here to try and

527
00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:57,600
rectify and resolve what's going on here

528
00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:59,360
i wanna try and find a solution to this

529
00:16:57,600 --> 00:17:01,199
okay the challenge with conflict

530
00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:02,720
scenarios is that people are often

531
00:17:01,199 --> 00:17:04,799
looking for

532
00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:07,360
somebody to say that either side is

533
00:17:04,799 --> 00:17:09,760
right and that's not what the solution

534
00:17:07,360 --> 00:17:11,760
is the solution isn't about who's right

535
00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:14,240
and who's not right that's how children

536
00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:17,120
solve problems okay the way in which we

537
00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:19,439
solve problems is by finding solutions

538
00:17:17,120 --> 00:17:21,039
and in almost all all conflict scenarios

539
00:17:19,439 --> 00:17:22,400
that i've ever been involved i've ever

540
00:17:21,039 --> 00:17:26,079
been involved in and i've been involved

541
00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:26,079
in hundreds of them as a facilitator

542
00:17:26,959 --> 00:17:31,440
no

543
00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:34,400
no single side of the conflict equation

544
00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:36,559
is ever 100 right there is always levels

545
00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:38,799
of grain between them so your role as a

546
00:17:36,559 --> 00:17:41,520
facilitator is to build trust in both

547
00:17:38,799 --> 00:17:42,960
sides now to be a facilitator there has

548
00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:46,080
to be a perception that you're going to

549
00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:47,440
be objective okay if you know if there

550
00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:50,080
is going to be a conflict situation

551
00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:51,520
between person a and person b

552
00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:54,000
and you are

553
00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:55,440
the spouse of person a then you're

554
00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:57,200
clearly biased there's a conflict of

555
00:17:55,440 --> 00:18:00,559
interest okay so you can only be a

556
00:17:57,200 --> 00:18:02,960
facilitator in situations where you um

557
00:18:00,559 --> 00:18:04,640
you can be objective and the first thing

558
00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:06,799
you're going to want to say to those

559
00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:09,120
folks when you become that facilitator

560
00:18:06,799 --> 00:18:10,480
is i'm not going to play favorites here

561
00:18:09,120 --> 00:18:11,679
my goal here is to understand what's

562
00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:13,600
going on

563
00:18:11,679 --> 00:18:15,679
find the causes of this conflict and

564
00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:17,679
find solutions so we can get back to

565
00:18:15,679 --> 00:18:19,360
living our lives okay

566
00:18:17,679 --> 00:18:21,039
the second step is to understand the

567
00:18:19,360 --> 00:18:23,440
issues in the people now this is really

568
00:18:21,039 --> 00:18:26,320
important okay our natural human

569
00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:28,559
inclination is to jump to conclusions is

570
00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:30,559
to think i know that person

571
00:18:28,559 --> 00:18:32,720
and

572
00:18:30,559 --> 00:18:34,880
i could see why they did that

573
00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:37,360
or i know this other person and they're

574
00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:38,480
a decent person and i can't imagine that

575
00:18:37,360 --> 00:18:40,160
they would do the things they've been

576
00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:41,679
accused of right

577
00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:43,280
we have to throw that away we have to

578
00:18:41,679 --> 00:18:46,799
look at the evidence you've got to be

579
00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:48,000
like a a jury or like a judge here and

580
00:18:46,799 --> 00:18:50,320
understand the issues the first thing

581
00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:51,919
i'd recommend you do here

582
00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:54,080
is you get on a call with each of the

583
00:18:51,919 --> 00:18:55,440
individual parties and again conflict

584
00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:57,440
can be two different people it can be

585
00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:59,520
two different groups it can be three or

586
00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:01,039
four different people or groups get on a

587
00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:03,919
call with each of them it's got to be a

588
00:19:01,039 --> 00:19:06,320
phone call it can't be on slack or email

589
00:19:03,919 --> 00:19:08,559
or irc or anything like that you've got

590
00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:09,600
to get on a call and the reason why

591
00:19:08,559 --> 00:19:10,480
is that

592
00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:12,640
when

593
00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:14,559
you can hear somebody's voice

594
00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:17,760
um you can hear the humanity in that

595
00:19:14,559 --> 00:19:19,200
individual right so if i was having a

596
00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:20,480
conflict scenario with a conflict

597
00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:21,679
interview with you and i would and i

598
00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:23,520
said to you i said just tell me what's

599
00:19:21,679 --> 00:19:24,799
going on like there's obviously a lot of

600
00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:26,160
frustration here i'd like to hear your

601
00:19:24,799 --> 00:19:27,440
side of the story

602
00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:28,240
um

603
00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:30,320
and

604
00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:32,720
as they start sharing this all you got

605
00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:34,160
to do is listen and take tons and tons

606
00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:36,400
of notes write everything down that

607
00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:37,919
they're saying okay and what you've got

608
00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:39,679
to expect in this situation there's

609
00:19:37,919 --> 00:19:41,120
almost certainly going to be a lot of

610
00:19:39,679 --> 00:19:42,720
emotion there's going to be a lot of

611
00:19:41,120 --> 00:19:44,640
ranting there's going to be a lot of

612
00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:46,880
exaggerating there's going to be a lot

613
00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:48,559
of complaining bickering coping and

614
00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:50,160
moaning okay

615
00:19:48,559 --> 00:19:51,440
as they get all of this stuff off their

616
00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:55,679
chest okay

617
00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:58,160
and don't challenge them just let just

618
00:19:55,679 --> 00:20:00,480
just let them get it up get it out

619
00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:02,720
write everything down

620
00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:04,880
and what you're looking for as you go

621
00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:07,760
through this is you want to identify the

622
00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:11,039
root causes you want to figure out

623
00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:14,720
out of all of that noise and bluster

624
00:20:11,039 --> 00:20:16,559
and complaining and accusations

625
00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:18,960
what are the one or two things that are

626
00:20:16,559 --> 00:20:20,720
causing a problem there right so if i go

627
00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:21,919
back to my example

628
00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:23,200
of um

629
00:20:21,919 --> 00:20:25,120
me

630
00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:27,360
being upset about the guitarist in my

631
00:20:25,120 --> 00:20:29,440
metal band not saying thank you let's

632
00:20:27,360 --> 00:20:30,960
say i have a big moaning session like oh

633
00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:32,320
i'm sick and tired of this this and you

634
00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:36,240
know you never appreciate this that and

635
00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:37,960
the other okay the root cause of that

636
00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:40,720
i would argue would be me feeling

637
00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:42,320
underappreciated it's not really about

638
00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:45,360
the fact that he didn't say thank you

639
00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:46,159
after i dropped him off at band practice

640
00:20:45,360 --> 00:20:47,919
um

641
00:20:46,159 --> 00:20:50,960
it's that he didn't appreciate my role

642
00:20:47,919 --> 00:20:54,240
in the band that's the root cause right

643
00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:56,559
so from that root cause we can then um

644
00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:58,240
we can then start thinking about what

645
00:20:56,559 --> 00:20:59,679
solutions are going to be and these

646
00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:01,679
solutions have got to be practical

647
00:20:59,679 --> 00:21:03,280
solutions so when you go through this

648
00:21:01,679 --> 00:21:05,200
process you get on a call with the

649
00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:06,799
individuals you let them get everything

650
00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:08,880
off their chest you take a bunch of

651
00:21:06,799 --> 00:21:10,000
notes and start identifying some root

652
00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:11,919
causes

653
00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:14,400
and then what you want to do is you want

654
00:21:11,919 --> 00:21:16,799
to get back on a call with or with

655
00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:18,400
everybody together and what you do is

656
00:21:16,799 --> 00:21:20,720
you say look i know this has been some

657
00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:23,039
things have gone down here

658
00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:25,440
my role as you both know is i'm here as

659
00:21:23,039 --> 00:21:26,400
a facilitator and what i want to do is i

660
00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:28,320
want to share with you some of the

661
00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:30,400
things that i've explored and i've

662
00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:32,400
identified and i've got some ideas for

663
00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:34,240
some some solutions that i'd like us to

664
00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:35,600
try okay

665
00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:36,720
and what you do is you share those root

666
00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:38,720
causes

667
00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:41,679
right now in almost all of these

668
00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:43,440
situations those root causes people will

669
00:21:41,679 --> 00:21:45,200
privately agree with them but they may

670
00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:47,120
not publicly agree with them

671
00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:48,799
you know to give the example of not

672
00:21:47,120 --> 00:21:49,840
feeling appreciated

673
00:21:48,799 --> 00:21:51,919
that's something that people will

674
00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:53,679
probably feel feel comfortable

675
00:21:51,919 --> 00:21:54,799
publicly agreeing with

676
00:21:53,679 --> 00:21:56,480
but um

677
00:21:54,799 --> 00:21:57,919
saying that somebody else saying that

678
00:21:56,480 --> 00:21:59,120
there's insecurity in members of the

679
00:21:57,919 --> 00:22:02,000
team is something that people might not

680
00:21:59,120 --> 00:22:03,600
be comfortable in in in sharing so you

681
00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:05,280
don't need to get them to agree to the

682
00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:07,440
root cause what you need to get them to

683
00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:09,679
agree to is the solutions that's what we

684
00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:13,200
care about and the idea here is that the

685
00:22:09,679 --> 00:22:16,080
practical solutions are super easy

686
00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:17,840
low hanging fruit you know so let's use

687
00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:20,080
another example let's assume for for a

688
00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:21,600
second that um

689
00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:23,360
there's a conflict between two different

690
00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:25,039
developers in a project

691
00:22:23,360 --> 00:22:26,400
and um

692
00:22:25,039 --> 00:22:28,320
and

693
00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:29,440
they're both accusing the other person

694
00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:31,280
of

695
00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:33,360
intentionally complaining and getting in

696
00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:34,320
the way of the project right

697
00:22:33,360 --> 00:22:35,840
now

698
00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:37,520
what you do is you talk to each of them

699
00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:39,520
and you identify that the root cause

700
00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:41,200
here is that they both have different

701
00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:42,799
expectations about what this project is

702
00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:44,960
supposed to be

703
00:22:42,799 --> 00:22:46,960
right so when you get them back together

704
00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:49,440
on the phone and again it has to be on a

705
00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:53,840
video call an audio call something where

706
00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:55,520
you can hear or hear and or see somebody

707
00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:56,480
you say i think one of the root causes

708
00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:57,679
here

709
00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:59,360
is that both of you've got very

710
00:22:57,679 --> 00:23:00,400
different ideas for what this project

711
00:22:59,360 --> 00:23:01,360
should be

712
00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:03,440
okay

713
00:23:01,360 --> 00:23:05,120
and what i'd like to suggest we do as a

714
00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:07,120
practical solution is that we schedule a

715
00:23:05,120 --> 00:23:09,200
call and let's just talk through those

716
00:23:07,120 --> 00:23:10,559
ideas and what i want to do is get both

717
00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:12,960
of you on a call and before you get to

718
00:23:10,559 --> 00:23:14,400
that call to show up with

719
00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:15,840
three things that you feel like this

720
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:17,280
project should be

721
00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:19,039
right three areas where you want to

722
00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:21,120
focus this project on and then what you

723
00:23:19,039 --> 00:23:22,799
do in that call is you review their

724
00:23:21,120 --> 00:23:24,640
three suggestions and you identify okay

725
00:23:22,799 --> 00:23:25,919
well how can we take some bits from this

726
00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:28,159
bit and some bits from this bit and kind

727
00:23:25,919 --> 00:23:30,960
of bring them together and that's how we

728
00:23:28,159 --> 00:23:33,120
get to the solution all right make sense

729
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:36,000
yep and then the final thing we do here

730
00:23:33,120 --> 00:23:37,600
is to document this and to maintain it

731
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:38,799
right so essentially what we're doing is

732
00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:40,880
here is we're going to say okay well

733
00:23:38,799 --> 00:23:42,080
we've identified these root causes

734
00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:43,440
we've all agreed we're going to work in

735
00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:44,880
these

736
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:46,480
three solutions three little things that

737
00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:48,480
we're going to do

738
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:50,559
you write them down in an email and you

739
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:52,880
send it to everybody involved right and

740
00:23:50,559 --> 00:23:54,480
then what you do is you say let's catch

741
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:56,000
back up in a couple of weeks and see how

742
00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:57,919
we're doing

743
00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:59,039
and the goal here is to get everybody to

744
00:23:57,919 --> 00:24:01,200
agree to the things that you've

745
00:23:59,039 --> 00:24:03,200
documented now once you get to the steps

746
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:05,360
four and five in this process the heat

747
00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:09,039
will be significantly dissipated from a

748
00:24:05,360 --> 00:24:10,400
conflict scenario in 98 of cases okay

749
00:24:09,039 --> 00:24:11,840
now you may be thinking all right what

750
00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:13,360
happens jono if people are just

751
00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:14,559
unwilling to participate people are

752
00:24:13,360 --> 00:24:17,120
unwilling to

753
00:24:14,559 --> 00:24:18,400
go through this process well this is

754
00:24:17,120 --> 00:24:20,320
when you're going to have to sit down

755
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:22,159
with them as the facilitator and

756
00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:25,520
hopefully again from a position of a

757
00:24:22,159 --> 00:24:27,279
trusted individual and say look

758
00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:29,120
the only way in which we're going to

759
00:24:27,279 --> 00:24:31,360
rectify this

760
00:24:29,120 --> 00:24:33,120
is if we all play a role in finding a

761
00:24:31,360 --> 00:24:34,960
solution to it

762
00:24:33,120 --> 00:24:37,600
i can't help you if you're not willing

763
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:39,039
to play a role in finding a solution

764
00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:40,240
and if they say i'm not interested in

765
00:24:39,039 --> 00:24:42,080
finding a role

766
00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:43,760
uh in i'm not interested in playing a

767
00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:45,600
role to find a solution

768
00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:47,120
then sadly those people have got to go

769
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:49,039
like you can't have those people in your

770
00:24:47,120 --> 00:24:50,640
community because they will be actively

771
00:24:49,039 --> 00:24:52,480
toxic okay

772
00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:53,440
the good news is that i've experienced

773
00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:55,679
that

774
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:57,840
literally a handful of times in my

775
00:24:55,679 --> 00:24:59,279
entire career and over 20 years of doing

776
00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:03,279
this that's only happened a couple of

777
00:24:59,279 --> 00:25:04,720
times all right so let's now move on

778
00:25:03,279 --> 00:25:06,799
to our third

779
00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:09,039
layer of the pyramid and again if you've

780
00:25:06,799 --> 00:25:10,480
got any questions get them into the chat

781
00:25:09,039 --> 00:25:12,799
i'd love to hear them i'd love to go and

782
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:15,840
respond to them you know my goal here is

783
00:25:12,799 --> 00:25:18,000
to uh is is is that you can take as much

784
00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:20,080
of this away and apply um

785
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:21,039
this in in the future you know i hope

786
00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:22,080
that this session is going to be

787
00:25:21,039 --> 00:25:23,200
something that's in your back pocket

788
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:25,200
that you can use when you have to deal

789
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:27,840
with these kinds of situations

790
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:29,279
so this third layer is for me is the one

791
00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:32,400
that definitely has the most amount of

792
00:25:29,279 --> 00:25:33,760
impact um and it's definitely the one

793
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:36,080
that is

794
00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:37,520
the most dangerous frankly and that is

795
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:38,320
stress and burnout

796
00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:39,919
now

797
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:42,000
many years ago

798
00:25:39,919 --> 00:25:44,960
i burnt out i'd been i've been working

799
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:46,400
at canonical for about

800
00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:49,360
um

801
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:50,799
about a year um and you know the ubuntu

802
00:25:49,360 --> 00:25:52,799
community was just

803
00:25:50,799 --> 00:25:54,799
exploding right there was just in a good

804
00:25:52,799 --> 00:25:56,559
way there was so much interesting

805
00:25:54,799 --> 00:25:59,039
excitement around ubuntu

806
00:25:56,559 --> 00:26:00,720
um and i was just

807
00:25:59,039 --> 00:26:03,360
constantly on the road i was single at

808
00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:05,440
the time i was flying around the world

809
00:26:03,360 --> 00:26:07,200
going to conferences and speaking events

810
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:08,559
and meeting people and it was it was an

811
00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:09,520
absolute blast

812
00:26:08,559 --> 00:26:12,320
you know

813
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:14,000
one week i'd be having caprinas with uh

814
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:15,919
with my friends in brazil and the next

815
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:17,600
moment i'd be in spain

816
00:26:15,919 --> 00:26:19,279
you know going out for tapas right it

817
00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:20,240
was it was awesome

818
00:26:19,279 --> 00:26:21,760
um

819
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:23,760
but i was i found myself getting a

820
00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:24,960
little agitated and just generally being

821
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:26,960
quite grumpy

822
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:27,840
um and

823
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:29,760
um

824
00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:31,360
a guy who works on my team called daniel

825
00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:34,320
holbach who

826
00:26:31,360 --> 00:26:35,600
uh who will be a lifelong friend of mine

827
00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:37,600
just said to me one day i was like are

828
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:39,200
you okay

829
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:43,440
because you've you've been really

830
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:44,960
grouchy recently like really grouchy

831
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:46,000
and i was really happy that he said this

832
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:48,000
like a lot of people wouldn't feel

833
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:49,919
comfortable going to their their boss

834
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:52,559
about this but i had a very very kind of

835
00:26:49,919 --> 00:26:54,400
loose knit team

836
00:26:52,559 --> 00:26:55,279
and that's when i realized you know what

837
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:57,520
yeah

838
00:26:55,279 --> 00:27:00,559
something's going on here

839
00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:01,919
so i realized that i was burning out um

840
00:27:00,559 --> 00:27:03,919
i'd heard about this thing called burner

841
00:27:01,919 --> 00:27:05,919
but i really didn't know a lot about it

842
00:27:03,919 --> 00:27:07,600
so what i did is i went online and i and

843
00:27:05,919 --> 00:27:08,880
i did some research and i found this

844
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:11,360
article in this magazine called

845
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:13,120
scientific american mind on burnout and

846
00:27:11,360 --> 00:27:14,880
it talked through the 12 stages of

847
00:27:13,120 --> 00:27:17,120
burnout

848
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:20,080
it was this this wonderful study that

849
00:27:17,120 --> 00:27:22,159
was done that identified these 12 stages

850
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:23,679
and you start out at stage one which is

851
00:27:22,159 --> 00:27:26,240
being a bit grumpy

852
00:27:23,679 --> 00:27:28,720
and stage 12 is

853
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:31,520
is you know basically

854
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:32,559
suicide in many cases sadly

855
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:34,240
um

856
00:27:32,559 --> 00:27:36,320
so what i want to do is i want to go

857
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:37,440
through i've summarized these stages of

858
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:39,360
burnout and i'm going to and i'm going

859
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:40,960
to share them with you

860
00:27:39,360 --> 00:27:42,320
because it's useful to know what they

861
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:44,159
are i'm not going to go through all 12

862
00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:44,880
stages i've kind of condensed them down

863
00:27:44,159 --> 00:27:46,640
into

864
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:49,120
into a smaller set of stages so we can

865
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:50,640
get through them

866
00:27:49,120 --> 00:27:53,039
now one of things you need to know as we

867
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:55,200
go through this is not everybody will

868
00:27:53,039 --> 00:27:57,039
experience all of these different stages

869
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:59,279
and sometimes these stages happen in a

870
00:27:57,039 --> 00:28:00,080
different order okay

871
00:27:59,279 --> 00:28:02,159
um

872
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:04,159
and what i'd like you to do is as we're

873
00:28:02,159 --> 00:28:06,559
going through this i'd like you to think

874
00:28:04,159 --> 00:28:08,799
about which stage you have been at or

875
00:28:06,559 --> 00:28:11,039
you that you might be at right now

876
00:28:08,799 --> 00:28:12,559
if you feel comfortable

877
00:28:11,039 --> 00:28:15,039
share that in the chat

878
00:28:12,559 --> 00:28:16,720
um if you don't feel comfortable you do

879
00:28:15,039 --> 00:28:18,720
not have to share anything okay this is

880
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:19,679
a very very personal topic totally

881
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:21,360
understand if you don't want to share

882
00:28:19,679 --> 00:28:22,880
anything okay

883
00:28:21,360 --> 00:28:24,559
but i want to go through this so you can

884
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:26,720
recognize when burnout's happening in

885
00:28:24,559 --> 00:28:28,960
yourself but also when you can recognize

886
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:30,799
in your fellow community members in your

887
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:32,960
fellow colleagues and your fellow family

888
00:28:30,799 --> 00:28:34,559
members and friends and loved ones all

889
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:35,679
right okay so let's go through these

890
00:28:34,559 --> 00:28:38,320
stages

891
00:28:35,679 --> 00:28:39,919
so again if you feel comfortable sharing

892
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:41,520
which stage you've been at in the past

893
00:28:39,919 --> 00:28:42,480
or which stage you're at right now if

894
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:45,520
you want to probably in the chat but

895
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:47,760
don't feel like you have to stage one

896
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:50,960
is around insecurity and proof so

897
00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:53,279
typically what happens at stage one is

898
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:55,120
is that we are

899
00:28:53,279 --> 00:28:57,120
we're feeling tense

900
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:59,679
right something's going on

901
00:28:57,120 --> 00:29:01,279
and um we are

902
00:28:59,679 --> 00:29:02,720
um

903
00:29:01,279 --> 00:29:04,880
we just know something's not quite right

904
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:06,640
you just don't really feel yourself

905
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:08,240
and what typically starts happening is

906
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:09,600
you start feeling a little insecure

907
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:11,360
about yourself

908
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:12,960
um especially

909
00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:14,720
with your work

910
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:16,720
now i had this when i was at canonical

911
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:18,960
and i was burning out i was like

912
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:21,440
god i feel like i'm just not really

913
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:22,559
as good as everybody seems to think i am

914
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:25,679
um you know i was getting a lot of

915
00:29:22,559 --> 00:29:27,919
attention back then in my in my career

916
00:29:25,679 --> 00:29:29,440
and i was having just rocking imposter

917
00:29:27,919 --> 00:29:31,600
syndrome which if you're unfamiliar with

918
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:33,279
imposter syndrome imposter syndrome the

919
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:34,640
basic idea of it is

920
00:29:33,279 --> 00:29:36,559
um

921
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:38,080
is that uh

922
00:29:36,559 --> 00:29:39,760
people really respect you for what you

923
00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:41,120
do but you think you're actually not

924
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:43,039
very good and it's only a matter of time

925
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:45,520
before you get found out okay a lot of

926
00:29:43,039 --> 00:29:47,120
period people experience this in all

927
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:50,000
walks of life it's especially common

928
00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:51,120
with underrepresented groups all right

929
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:52,799
now

930
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:54,640
insecurity improve all right so you

931
00:29:52,799 --> 00:29:57,120
start feeling a bit insecure and you

932
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:59,760
feel like you need to prove yourself

933
00:29:57,120 --> 00:30:02,080
right so you start working more you

934
00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:04,399
start checking your phone on weekends

935
00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:06,640
more you start responding to your email

936
00:30:04,399 --> 00:30:07,760
more uh you start cramming on some of

937
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:09,919
the things that you feel like you need

938
00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:11,520
to know about that you don't know about

939
00:30:09,919 --> 00:30:12,320
so you can feel like you're able to kind

940
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:14,240
of

941
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:15,279
deal with that all right so that's stage

942
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:17,600
one

943
00:30:15,279 --> 00:30:21,360
stage two is that you just start working

944
00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:24,159
harder and working longer right so you

945
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:25,760
you finish work later um you again you

946
00:30:24,159 --> 00:30:28,880
kind of your work bleeds into the

947
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:30,480
weekends uh bleeds into your evenings

948
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:31,679
you start taking some time away from

949
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:34,640
your family

950
00:30:31,679 --> 00:30:36,799
um um or your friends or your hobbies

951
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:39,039
your interests and replacing it with

952
00:30:36,799 --> 00:30:40,960
work and it's all with this kind of

953
00:30:39,039 --> 00:30:43,120
desire to try and prove yourself and to

954
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:44,480
deal with that sense of insecurity that

955
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:46,720
it's only a matter of time before this

956
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:48,240
house of cards that is my career starts

957
00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:51,039
crumbling starts falling down and

958
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:52,720
crumbling okay

959
00:30:51,039 --> 00:30:54,480
now because you're working harder and

960
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:55,760
longer

961
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:57,919
and in many cases you're not actually

962
00:30:55,760 --> 00:31:01,360
doing better work you just

963
00:30:57,919 --> 00:31:01,360
longer work right

964
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:05,760
you start getting tired

965
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:07,279
and that's when stress starts you know

966
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:09,600
it's here's the thing and i know it's

967
00:31:07,279 --> 00:31:11,200
difficult to say this at a tech event

968
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:13,120
it is not healthy for us to be in front

969
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:15,279
of computers and screens as much as we

970
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:17,840
are like we all know this

971
00:31:15,279 --> 00:31:19,519
but we we do it anyway right because

972
00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:21,039
screens are really fun computers are

973
00:31:19,519 --> 00:31:22,880
really fun

974
00:31:21,039 --> 00:31:24,960
but it's not healthy for us right and

975
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:26,559
it's really not healthy to lay in bed at

976
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:27,919
night and look at your your phone okay

977
00:31:26,559 --> 00:31:30,720
if you're going to look at screen before

978
00:31:27,919 --> 00:31:32,080
you go to bed everybody buy a kindle

979
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:33,519
it's much much better for your sleep

980
00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:35,840
i've literally measured this i have a

981
00:31:33,519 --> 00:31:37,600
mattress that tracks how well i sleep

982
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:39,200
and i track it with my watch and

983
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:41,200
everything it's

984
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:42,240
the impact of screens is not good on

985
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:44,720
your sleep

986
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:44,720
but um

987
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:48,640
you know we spend time if we spend loads

988
00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:50,000
more time on our computers and we're

989
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:51,360
constantly zoning our work we're not

990
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:54,159
spending time

991
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:56,080
uh you know relaxing and um

992
00:31:54,159 --> 00:31:58,640
engaging in our hobbies which helps us

993
00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:59,919
to to relieve our stress stress is gonna

994
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:01,120
start growing more and more and more

995
00:31:59,919 --> 00:32:02,880
like for me

996
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:05,919
stress relief is my family and stress

997
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:08,559
relief stress really for me is my family

998
00:32:05,919 --> 00:32:09,919
it is my music and it is drinking gin

999
00:32:08,559 --> 00:32:12,080
okay those are the things that help me

1000
00:32:09,919 --> 00:32:14,399
to relieve my stress okay you don't have

1001
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:16,399
to drink gin okay i do

1002
00:32:14,399 --> 00:32:17,919
because i think it's tasty

1003
00:32:16,399 --> 00:32:21,120
all right

1004
00:32:17,919 --> 00:32:23,200
step three or stage three in the burnout

1005
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:25,440
cycle is that then you stop taking care

1006
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:26,799
of yourself you start drinking too much

1007
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:29,760
gin

1008
00:32:26,799 --> 00:32:31,360
you start eating fast food and junk food

1009
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:33,760
because you don't have time or the

1010
00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:36,480
energy to cook you stop exercising as

1011
00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:39,840
much okay and again one thing that to be

1012
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:41,519
very clear exercise is an unbelievable

1013
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:44,720
medicine for

1014
00:32:41,519 --> 00:32:46,880
um anxiety and burnout um when i first

1015
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:48,480
moved to the u.s 13 years ago i never

1016
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:50,880
exercised ever

1017
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:52,640
my wife who's who's a health nut has got

1018
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:54,240
me into exercising every week and if i

1019
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:57,120
don't exercise for a couple weeks i

1020
00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:58,559
start getting stressed so um you stop

1021
00:32:57,120 --> 00:33:00,399
you know stage three you stop taking

1022
00:32:58,559 --> 00:33:02,640
care of yourself okay

1023
00:33:00,399 --> 00:33:04,480
um so this is when things are starting

1024
00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:06,799
to get somewhat serious and this is

1025
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:08,480
usually when people feel really worn out

1026
00:33:06,799 --> 00:33:10,640
i actually experienced this a little a

1027
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:13,600
little bit about

1028
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:15,519
about what three months ago um

1029
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:17,840
and i took a fairly extreme approach and

1030
00:33:15,519 --> 00:33:19,440
i fired half my clients just so i could

1031
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:20,799
ease up my life now i have i'm very

1032
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:22,080
fortunate i have a lot of because i run

1033
00:33:20,799 --> 00:33:23,679
my own business i can do that but if

1034
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:25,440
you're working for another company it's

1035
00:33:23,679 --> 00:33:27,200
harder to do that but just find ways in

1036
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:29,440
which you can start taking care of

1037
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:30,880
yourself a little bit more now

1038
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:32,559
things are going to get a little uh a

1039
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:34,080
little morbid as we kind of proceed

1040
00:33:32,559 --> 00:33:36,960
through this okay so here's a picture of

1041
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:38,480
my dog posing to kind of relieve the

1042
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:40,720
tension a little bit okay this is

1043
00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:42,399
biscuit biscuit the wonder dog he's a

1044
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:43,200
ridiculous hound

1045
00:33:42,399 --> 00:33:46,000
uh

1046
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:46,799
okay biscuit everyone everyone biscuit

1047
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:49,679
all right

1048
00:33:46,799 --> 00:33:52,159
so let's move on to stage four

1049
00:33:49,679 --> 00:33:54,320
this is relief and rejection so just to

1050
00:33:52,159 --> 00:33:56,799
recap at this point

1051
00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:58,559
you feel a bit like stage one you uh

1052
00:33:56,799 --> 00:34:00,000
feel a bit insecure about how good you

1053
00:33:58,559 --> 00:34:01,360
are and you know whether you're gonna be

1054
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:03,519
found out has actually not been very

1055
00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:04,960
good which is imposter syndrome so you

1056
00:34:03,519 --> 00:34:07,279
start trying to prove yourself more and

1057
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:09,200
more you start working longer hours

1058
00:34:07,279 --> 00:34:11,040
working harder spending less time with

1059
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:12,720
your family friends hobbies

1060
00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:13,679
you stop taking care of yourself as much

1061
00:34:12,720 --> 00:34:16,320
because

1062
00:34:13,679 --> 00:34:18,159
uh you're you're you're tired you don't

1063
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:20,399
exercise you eat junk food you drink too

1064
00:34:18,159 --> 00:34:21,520
much alcohol maybe even indulging drugs

1065
00:34:20,399 --> 00:34:23,599
whatever

1066
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:26,159
that kind of stuff not good

1067
00:34:23,599 --> 00:34:28,480
stage four is when serious burnout is

1068
00:34:26,159 --> 00:34:31,599
setting in luckily most people don't get

1069
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:34,320
to this stage okay and this is where you

1070
00:34:31,599 --> 00:34:36,079
just need to find a means to get relief

1071
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:39,040
you're so worn out you're so tired

1072
00:34:36,079 --> 00:34:41,200
you're so sick of being being scared and

1073
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:43,359
anxious that you just need relief and

1074
00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:45,200
this is sadly when a lot of people will

1075
00:34:43,359 --> 00:34:47,359
well some people rather will will that

1076
00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:49,679
will indulge in drugs

1077
00:34:47,359 --> 00:34:52,399
alcohol there's been reports in the

1078
00:34:49,679 --> 00:34:55,440
study um that i read in that magazine in

1079
00:34:52,399 --> 00:34:57,680
american scientific mind magazine

1080
00:34:55,440 --> 00:35:00,560
that kind of unusual sexual practices

1081
00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:04,160
can sometimes manifest at this stage

1082
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:06,720
um in the burnout cycle and

1083
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:09,040
sadly what often happens here is that

1084
00:35:06,720 --> 00:35:11,680
uh when people start expressing concerns

1085
00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:12,560
and worry about you you reject them

1086
00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:13,920
right

1087
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:15,920
i'm just going through a difficult time

1088
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:17,839
right now right it's not me i'm not the

1089
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:19,760
problem it's these idiots that i work

1090
00:35:17,839 --> 00:35:21,359
with nobody understands me

1091
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:23,280
nobody's seeing the world for what it

1092
00:35:21,359 --> 00:35:24,880
really is people are living in la la

1093
00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:26,560
land right this is the kind of stuff

1094
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:29,200
that people will say when they're going

1095
00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:30,720
through this stage okay

1096
00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:32,320
um

1097
00:35:30,720 --> 00:35:34,160
if you've experienced this in the past

1098
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:36,000
or if you're experiencing in if you're

1099
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:38,320
experiencing this right now

1100
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:40,160
this is the time and i'm being serious

1101
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:42,160
here to go and get some help go talk to

1102
00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:43,440
your doctor go talk to a therapist

1103
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:45,119
because this is a serious level of

1104
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:47,440
burnout and you definitely want to be

1105
00:35:45,119 --> 00:35:49,119
able to to deal with it the good news

1106
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:50,640
is that

1107
00:35:49,119 --> 00:35:52,480
most of the time people can can get

1108
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:53,760
through this they can deal with it

1109
00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:55,520
there's lots of things we can do to

1110
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:57,760
rectify this but just knowing that

1111
00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:58,960
there's a problem is important

1112
00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:00,800
then what we do is we move on to the

1113
00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:02,320
fifth and final stage

1114
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:04,560
and this is withdrawal and depression

1115
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:06,480
this is obviously the most most serious

1116
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:10,240
part of this okay

1117
00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:11,920
and this is typically when people are so

1118
00:36:10,240 --> 00:36:13,839
worn out that their mental health is

1119
00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:15,280
really significantly disrupted by this

1120
00:36:13,839 --> 00:36:17,200
they withdraw from people they stop

1121
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:18,960
seeing their friends they stop seeing

1122
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:21,359
their family members this is sadly this

1123
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:22,960
is when real issues can be caused with

1124
00:36:21,359 --> 00:36:24,960
with people's uh relationships with

1125
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:27,760
their spouses um

1126
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:30,480
um and real depression starts uh setting

1127
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:31,920
in right i mean and this whole burnout

1128
00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:34,320
cycle is going to be difficult enough if

1129
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:35,920
you already suffer from depression uh

1130
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:37,440
but this is when significant levels of

1131
00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:38,960
depression can kind of manifest and

1132
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:41,920
sadly this is when

1133
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:44,480
in in it's luckily a in in a relatively

1134
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:46,400
small number of cases but in some cases

1135
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:48,640
um this is when people can experience

1136
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:49,520
suicidal thoughts and and those kinds of

1137
00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:51,200
things

1138
00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:53,359
so this is obviously a very serious

1139
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:55,280
situation you definitely want to go and

1140
00:36:53,359 --> 00:36:57,200
seek a medical professional so as a

1141
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:59,040
general rule i would recommend when

1142
00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:01,440
you're in stages one and two

1143
00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:03,760
just try to try to take a step back

1144
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:05,119
and try to um

1145
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:07,040
not worry as much

1146
00:37:05,119 --> 00:37:09,280
maybe some meditation some mindfulness

1147
00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:10,640
is good when you start again to stage

1148
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:12,640
three

1149
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:16,000
um definitely i would recommend going

1150
00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:17,920
and speaking to a doctor or a therapist

1151
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:19,839
there's no

1152
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:21,520
uh there's no shame in talking to a

1153
00:37:19,839 --> 00:37:22,960
doctor or therapist about this and

1154
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:26,079
definitely if you're in stages four and

1155
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:27,920
five definitely seek medical help um

1156
00:37:26,079 --> 00:37:28,960
because it's a serious situation and you

1157
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:31,520
you know you want to make sure that you

1158
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:33,520
can you've got the tools that

1159
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:34,800
to deal with it all right

1160
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:36,240
i wish i had that picture of my dog

1161
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:37,520
because it's you know it's very serious

1162
00:37:36,240 --> 00:37:38,880
stuff okay

1163
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:40,720
now um

1164
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:41,760
the solution to this

1165
00:37:40,720 --> 00:37:43,599
is

1166
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:45,760
is to go to when you see it in other

1167
00:37:43,599 --> 00:37:47,200
people right it could be team members or

1168
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:48,640
your colleagues or your friends or your

1169
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:49,680
family

1170
00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:50,880
one of the things you should do is just

1171
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:53,359
go up to them and say hey i got your

1172
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:54,960
back i'm here to help okay and to help

1173
00:37:53,359 --> 00:37:56,240
walk them through these problems the

1174
00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:57,119
challenge is that you know when we get

1175
00:37:56,240 --> 00:37:58,880
into this

1176
00:37:57,119 --> 00:38:01,520
when you get into the um

1177
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:03,280
kind of the uh the rejection phase that

1178
00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:05,440
stage four and five sometimes people can

1179
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:06,880
reject help so when you start seeing

1180
00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:08,400
people burning out that's definitely the

1181
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:10,480
time when you should go and say i've got

1182
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:12,160
your back let me try and help you out

1183
00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:13,599
maybe you should take a breather

1184
00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:14,880
checking in on them

1185
00:38:13,599 --> 00:38:17,200
you know these kinds of things can be

1186
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:18,480
very very helpful okay you want to try

1187
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:21,280
and help them as much as you can before

1188
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:23,040
they start rejecting people

1189
00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:24,880
um but then something you might want to

1190
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:27,119
consider for yourself is what i call a

1191
00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:29,200
stoic toolbox all right

1192
00:38:27,119 --> 00:38:31,359
um there's some amazing books out there

1193
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:33,119
that i would recommend you read

1194
00:38:31,359 --> 00:38:34,800
if you are either burning out right now

1195
00:38:33,119 --> 00:38:36,800
or if you uh you want to prevent

1196
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:39,040
yourself from burning out in the future

1197
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:40,480
if you are burning out right now

1198
00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:42,240
the book you should go and buy is called

1199
00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:44,960
the obstacle is the way by ryan holiday

1200
00:38:42,240 --> 00:38:46,480
it's a wonderful book i was burning out

1201
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:48,320
at one point i read this book it really

1202
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:50,560
helped i have a stack of them in my

1203
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:52,079
office and i give them to people when

1204
00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:54,079
they are struggling you know a friend of

1205
00:38:52,079 --> 00:38:55,920
mine had breast cancer she just been

1206
00:38:54,079 --> 00:38:57,680
diagnosed i gave her a book

1207
00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:58,640
another friend of mine got let go from

1208
00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:01,200
his job

1209
00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:02,800
due to covid gave him a book you know so

1210
00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:04,960
this is a really great book i'd also

1211
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:06,320
recommend the daily stoic stoicism is

1212
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:07,599
this really interesting kind of

1213
00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:10,480
psychology

1214
00:39:07,599 --> 00:39:12,160
um or philosophy rather which is all

1215
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:13,599
about kind of building resilience in

1216
00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:17,760
yourself it's like training a little

1217
00:39:13,599 --> 00:39:20,079
voice in your brain that is able to um

1218
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:22,000
uh that is able to

1219
00:39:20,079 --> 00:39:24,160
um

1220
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:25,839
just help to get you through situations

1221
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:27,920
in a very productive manner you know

1222
00:39:25,839 --> 00:39:29,839
imagine for example your you're you're

1223
00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:32,079
you you get called in for a meeting with

1224
00:39:29,839 --> 00:39:33,839
your boss and your boss is unhappy about

1225
00:39:32,079 --> 00:39:34,960
something and they start telling you how

1226
00:39:33,839 --> 00:39:36,880
all of this work that you've done is

1227
00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:38,960
wrong and maybe they're not handling

1228
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:40,720
very well and they're kind of being

1229
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:42,240
a bit mean about things

1230
00:39:40,720 --> 00:39:44,240
a lot of people in those situations they

1231
00:39:42,240 --> 00:39:46,000
snap and they react and then they go

1232
00:39:44,240 --> 00:39:48,079
home and they think oh why did i say

1233
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:49,920
that why did you react in that way

1234
00:39:48,079 --> 00:39:51,280
what stoicism would teach you is to

1235
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:53,680
train a little voice in the back of your

1236
00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:55,839
head to say okay

1237
00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:58,560
this is suboptimal

1238
00:39:55,839 --> 00:39:59,440
this is a uncomfortable situation but

1239
00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:01,359
what

1240
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:03,440
do i want to learn

1241
00:40:01,359 --> 00:40:05,839
and what decision do i want to make that

1242
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:07,520
will be the best outcome at this moment

1243
00:40:05,839 --> 00:40:10,079
in time

1244
00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:12,400
that's kind of what stoicism teaches us

1245
00:40:10,079 --> 00:40:14,640
it's really hard but it's incredibly

1246
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:15,920
worthwhile another book i'd recommend is

1247
00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:17,760
the seven habits of highly effective

1248
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:18,880
people when i first heard the title of

1249
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:20,079
this book i

1250
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:21,839
snorted

1251
00:40:20,079 --> 00:40:24,160
in disgust at the title i thought it was

1252
00:40:21,839 --> 00:40:26,400
so stupid like one of these cheesy

1253
00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:28,240
self-help books but it is one of the

1254
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:29,599
most incredible books i've ever read i

1255
00:40:28,240 --> 00:40:30,720
definitely go recommend you go and check

1256
00:40:29,599 --> 00:40:33,119
it out by

1257
00:40:30,720 --> 00:40:34,720
stephen r covey all right

1258
00:40:33,119 --> 00:40:36,839
all righty my friends i hope that was

1259
00:40:34,720 --> 00:40:39,040
useful um just to kind of cap this

1260
00:40:36,839 --> 00:40:40,880
off um

1261
00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:43,720
you know i love sharing uh things that

1262
00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:47,200
i've learned if you go to john

1263
00:40:43,720 --> 00:40:48,560
www.johnabacon.com forward slash pack

1264
00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:50,720
and you pop in your first name and email

1265
00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:52,240
address you can

1266
00:40:50,720 --> 00:40:53,599
you can sign up and i'll i'll send you

1267
00:40:52,240 --> 00:40:55,680
tons of really useful stuff i'll send

1268
00:40:53,599 --> 00:40:57,119
you a couple of free uh chapters from my

1269
00:40:55,680 --> 00:40:58,800
book people powered which is the best

1270
00:40:57,119 --> 00:41:00,319
seller it's won a business book award

1271
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:02,240
it's been doing really well i'll send

1272
00:41:00,319 --> 00:41:03,839
you some audiobook chapters i also like

1273
00:41:02,240 --> 00:41:05,920
to send people out templates and cheat

1274
00:41:03,839 --> 00:41:07,440
sheets for how to build communities

1275
00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:08,880
tips and best practices i send free

1276
00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:10,319
training i do mentoring sweepstakes

1277
00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:11,200
where i get on one-on-one sessions with

1278
00:41:10,319 --> 00:41:13,200
people

1279
00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:14,880
so anyway so i hope that might be uh

1280
00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:16,800
useful feel free to go over there and

1281
00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:19,040
i'll keep you posted i don't i don't

1282
00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:20,720
spam people with sales stuff and you

1283
00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:22,480
know i don't i don't share your

1284
00:41:20,720 --> 00:41:24,640
information with other people

1285
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:26,960
you know people who suck do that they

1286
00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:28,880
should be in the triangle of suck anyway

1287
00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:30,400
thank you so much again for joining i

1288
00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:33,119
hope you have a wonderful week and

1289
00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:35,599
weekend um thank you to my good friends

1290
00:41:33,119 --> 00:41:38,000
in the lca organized organizational team

1291
00:41:35,599 --> 00:41:39,920
they do such a wonderful job with this

1292
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:42,000
event and definitely go

1293
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:42,880
and uh and give them your thanks all

1294
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:45,440
right

1295
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:45,440
thanks everyone

1296
00:41:46,240 --> 00:41:49,599
hello hopefully i'm back here on camera

1297
00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:52,319
now

1298
00:41:49,599 --> 00:41:54,720
um i don't suppose we've got jono around

1299
00:41:52,319 --> 00:41:54,720
all right

1300
00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:58,560
well done that was really interesting i

1301
00:41:56,560 --> 00:41:59,280
i thought um when you hit the burnout

1302
00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:03,200
stuff

1303
00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:04,960
everyone in chat's going oh that's me

1304
00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:06,720
it is weird i remember the first time i

1305
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:10,560
ever talked about burnout

1306
00:42:06,720 --> 00:42:12,800
um was actually a canonical all hands um

1307
00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:14,640
and uh just i walked through the 12

1308
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:17,920
stages of burnout and i had one of my

1309
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:19,440
colleagues come up to me um and said

1310
00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:22,079
that they were at one of the later

1311
00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:23,760
stages and then um i found out without

1312
00:42:22,079 --> 00:42:26,560
making this too morbid i found out that

1313
00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:27,760
they were actively you know having

1314
00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:29,680
suicidal thoughts they went to see a

1315
00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:31,839
therapist and you know

1316
00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:34,000
just their life became a lot happier

1317
00:42:31,839 --> 00:42:35,280
because they knew that they could

1318
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:36,720
they could kind of distinguish where

1319
00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:38,640
they were in the cycle and they knew

1320
00:42:36,720 --> 00:42:40,160
that there was a way around it so um

1321
00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:42,880
it's so valuable that not enough people

1322
00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:44,560
know about that stuff so yeah did um i

1323
00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:46,240
wasn't there in the chat the whole time

1324
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:50,079
were there any sort of big points you

1325
00:42:46,240 --> 00:42:50,079
thought worthwhile talking about

1326
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:54,480
yeah i mean one of the things towards

1327
00:42:52,240 --> 00:42:56,240
the end actually was uh

1328
00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:57,760
the books like there was a

1329
00:42:56,240 --> 00:42:59,839
few people saying you know i struggle

1330
00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:01,280
with these kinds of books um and i have

1331
00:42:59,839 --> 00:43:02,720
a similar kind of issue with you know

1332
00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:04,400
these books about self-help and things

1333
00:43:02,720 --> 00:43:07,760
like that often because they're

1334
00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:09,280
written by uh nauseating individuals um

1335
00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:11,839
and sometimes they're too fluffy in

1336
00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:13,040
general um but i'm a big fan of anything

1337
00:43:11,839 --> 00:43:15,119
that provides really practical

1338
00:43:13,040 --> 00:43:16,319
guidelines to do in these things um and

1339
00:43:15,119 --> 00:43:18,640
the thing that i've learned is you just

1340
00:43:16,319 --> 00:43:20,160
have to practice right like stoicism is

1341
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:21,119
a good example i touched on that towards

1342
00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:23,040
the end

1343
00:43:21,119 --> 00:43:24,240
it is a really really powerful

1344
00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:27,359
philosophy

1345
00:43:24,240 --> 00:43:29,040
for how you can evaluate the world in a

1346
00:43:27,359 --> 00:43:30,880
really objective way the problem with

1347
00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:33,440
stoicism is that

1348
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:35,920
when you go down that rabbit hole um all

1349
00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:38,720
anyone talks about is marcus aurelius

1350
00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:41,599
and like these roman emperors and

1351
00:43:38,720 --> 00:43:43,280
and it kind of gets a little weird um

1352
00:43:41,599 --> 00:43:44,560
so but i would definitely encourage

1353
00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:46,720
people uh

1354
00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:48,000
to check into that um

1355
00:43:46,720 --> 00:43:51,680
and then there was just also some

1356
00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:53,359
comments in the chat about um

1357
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:54,960
you know how to

1358
00:43:53,359 --> 00:43:56,480
the conflict resolution part seemed to

1359
00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:58,400
like spin up a lot of discussion which i

1360
00:43:56,480 --> 00:44:00,480
thought was interesting um

1361
00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:01,839
in how people kind of approach that

1362
00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:04,400
manage that

1363
00:44:01,839 --> 00:44:06,079
um and you know especially when people

1364
00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:07,359
aren't seeing eye to eye when people

1365
00:44:06,079 --> 00:44:09,280
aren't even willing to get in the same

1366
00:44:07,359 --> 00:44:10,319
page so yeah

1367
00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:12,000
yeah

1368
00:44:10,319 --> 00:44:13,359
all right well um thanks very much that

1369
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:15,280
was really interesting i think you've

1370
00:44:13,359 --> 00:44:16,960
really hit pretty much everybody in the

1371
00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:19,119
in the chat room with um

1372
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:21,119
a big you know nerd sniping arrow and

1373
00:44:19,119 --> 00:44:22,800
here is your

1374
00:44:21,119 --> 00:44:24,480
live illustration

1375
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:26,640
will hopefully give you a hard copy of

1376
00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:28,480
this when it's all complete

1377
00:44:26,640 --> 00:44:30,480
that's cool oh by the way there's one

1378
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:32,560
other thing which i need to outline i

1379
00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:34,480
mentioned triangle of suck in my session

1380
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:36,640
which i made up when i was recording it

1381
00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:38,079
somebody went and registered the domain

1382
00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:41,280
at lca

1383
00:44:38,079 --> 00:44:43,200
which is awesome so whoever whoever that

1384
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:45,440
perfect human being is thank you for

1385
00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:46,800
doing that

1386
00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:49,200
ah good show

1387
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:51,440
all right so um we are now coming up to

1388
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:52,160
the first break of the day um i'd like

1389
00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:54,720
to

1390
00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:57,359
ask all our attendees um to remember the

1391
00:44:54,720 --> 00:44:59,680
main sessions start at 10 45 so we're

1392
00:44:57,359 --> 00:45:01,200
back into the full conference now

1393
00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:03,200
and then there's the linux agm at

1394
00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:06,560
lunchtime and the pdns session with

1395
00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:08,000
anthony green at 6 30 tonight so please

1396
00:45:06,560 --> 00:45:10,640
go have fun

1397
00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:13,880
and we'll see you a bit later on

1398
00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:13,880
thanks everyone