Subject: [Gimp-gui] Fwd: Some ideas and suggestions around digital painting on GIMP

From: Americo Gobbo <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2016 16:04:28 -0200

Hello all,
some features that are interesting to discuss to digital painting tasks:

1 - Erase on-the-fly via shortcut to some Paint Tools
The ability to have the eraser dynamics of Paintbrush, Pencil, Airbrush,
and Ink tools. For example, using a key to change the state (erase or paint
with the current tool), for instance, the Ctrl+Shift or another choice. So
we would have the same brush to paint and to erase ... I find it
interesting and important to have the option of deleting the same spot that
we are using to paint or draw and the fast way (for example, as color
picker via Ctrl key)

We have the possibility to share the brush/dynamics with the eraser too
with Preferences > Tool options = Paint Options Shared Between Tools. It is
good if the use between the tools is not repetitive or massive. In MyPaint
and Krita, we can use the key 'E', to enable temporary the eraser ability.
Basically we talking the same behavior that actually we have with pick
color on all paint tools, via the Ctrl key.

I've made a short video using Krita... to exemplify this feature... in this
video is used the key E to enable the feature to erase and again E to
disable the feature. On MyPaint the feature has the same behavior and
shortcut key.
Link to short movie: https://youtu.be/36zctEmkPlM

2 - Dynamic brush size
One way to enlarge and / or reduce the brush without having to be
constantly using the tool options or the [and] for this. This can be done
on Krita, using the SHIFT + Drag.
Link to short movie: https://youtu.be/wOGBDRWpgOs

In part, the graphic tablets, do it... but is impossible to resolve the
scale range. To have the possibility helps the artist to have on-the-fly
different range scales is better.
In 2014 I had a short thread with Alexia and the focus around the Size was
the possibility to have a range (min and max) in the UI. This is another
thing interesting... but this signify also to have the presets and not
necessarily this resolve all artists' tasks.
To have a feature to scale dynamically the Size is interesting to avoid,
for example, sets of brushes thought to different size ranges; a fast way
to control range sizes with graphical tablets, etc...

3 - Dynamic zoom
A dynamic zoom directly with the mouse or tablet's stylus ... the keyboard
shortcut (+) and (-) are difficult to use in painting session. Zoom tool
becomes a bit annoying while painting ... every time you have to select via
tool box or via keyboard zoom then painting, and to reselect again the
paint tool.

On MyPaint and Krita this feature is present, and they are similar
behavior. On MyPaint, for instance, the zoom is enabled with Ctrl+Drag.

4 - Paintbrush and Pattern
The feature is basically to have the option of a brush stroke over a
pattern.
The brush will work normally (with all tool options + Pattern), with
parametric or raster (.vbr, .gbr, .gih),  'feeling' the pattern as
background.
See figure of feature on Krita:
http://postimg.org/image/tj7p8wjnt/
On the Tool Options will have a new entry to choose the Pattern to apply in
the Paint Tool (basically Pencil, Paintbrush, Eraser and Airbrush).

5- Paint with Smudge tool.
To have on the main Paint tools the possibility to blend (smudge) directly
when we are painting or drawing.
On GIMP, now, is possible to make it in two steps - first we paint
something (Pencil, Paintbrush, Airbrush, etc.) and after with Smudge tool
blend the stains/strokes [http://postimg.org/image/jn6m99dvt/].
Basically this feature would be the current Smudge tool with the
possibility to paint directly on canvas. Now the Smudge tools has only the
capability to blend the stains using the brushes.
With MyPaint brushes, is possible to have the smudge on... but they are
parametric kind. In the ideal painting world, would be interesting to have
also the raster brushes with this feature... that is an unique tool.

Thanks,
americo
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---

From: Andrew Pullins <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2016 22:14:37 -0500

> I've made a short video using Krita... to exemplify this feature... in
> this video is used the key E to enable the feature to erase and again E to

I really like this feature from Krita and My paint but I think it would be
very inconsistent with from the way every other short cut we have. does
switching back and forth between tools using N, P, E, A, and K work for
you?  I personally turn off the sharing options in the tool options because
when I use the brush and the pen or the air brush I expect them to be
different.  I manly use brush and the eraser but I think I might turn them
back on now.

2 - Dynamic brush size
> to control range sizes with graphical tablets, etc...

Here <http://registry.gimp.org/node/27608> is a plug in that does what you
are looking for. I agree that this would be a nice feature to have come
with GIMP.  There have been a few brainstorm pages over the years about
this topics here
<http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-xQahHh42Fms/Tx8mfEjM1fI/AAAAAAAABZ4/E8ahYqiA74Y/s1600/GimpUI-01.png>,
here
<http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-VNnKJyj1cs8/ThXWpm4KvRI/AAAAAAAABX8/9eDqysn0PjE/s1600/brush_tools.png>,
here
<http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_wmx3OgdATU0/SI7rG9LWVTI/AAAAAAAAAl0/fguM8Iskg0c/s1600/blur%2Bsharpen%2Bsmudge%2Btool.png>,
here
<http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_wmx3OgdATU0/S38Mjc2ClmI/AAAAAAAABQY/N4vro1dKwCY/s1600/1_key_brush_resize.jpg>,
and here
<http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_wmx3OgdATU0/SYt0N6syhOI/AAAAAAAAA_s/XgVle59tNWQ/s1600/quickbrushradius.png>.
I don't know if there is a feature request in bugzilla though.

The plugin does not work in GIMP 2.9 as the function it uses is
deprecated.  I am unable to log into the plugin registry or I would report
the bug I am having.  Here is the error I am getting.

WARNING: Plug-In "dynamic_brush_resize.py"
(/home/andrew/.config/GIMP/2.9/plug-ins/dynamic_brush_resize.py)
called deprecated procedure 'gimp-brushes-get-spacing'.
It should call 'gimp-brush-get-spacing' instead!

3 - Dynamic zoom
> behavior. On MyPaint, for instance, the zoom is enabled with Ctrl+Drag.

This is honistly one of the greatest features of My paint.  To very quickly
zoom in and out like this is so amazing. I would add shift+Drag to rotate
the image once that feature is done as well.

Andrew
--
Jesus is my Lord and Savior. Praise be unto God for giving us a way to live
with him.

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---

From: Americo Gobbo <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2016 10:31:35 -0200

On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 1:14 AM, Andrew Pullins <[email-masked]>
wrote:

> switching back and forth between tools using N, P, E, A, and K work for you?
>

Essentially yes. The shortcuts we can modify and in many cases to adopt a
pattern or schema friendly between different apps. Normally in the painting
tasks, one painter, has his own schema... and in GIMP is possible to do a
short toolbox to do it. But is not my scope discuss that in this thread ;-)

> I personally turn off the sharing options in the tool options because when
> I use the brush and the pen or the air brush I expect them to be

I think that the 'Paint Options Shared Between Tools' works fine in many
cases... but not to all. My suggestion, here, is to provide another option
to have the eraser directly on paint tool. For me and many painters that
are using MyPaint and Krita, this feature is working fine.

Idea: well, the eraser directly, via a shortcut, as we've with pick color,
could be the same tool with a mode blend to erase or to clean the
strokes/stains. Perhaps in this way is more easy to create the conditions
of this feature.

2 - Dynamic brush size
>> In 2014 I had a short thread with Alexia and the focus around the Size
>> was the possibility to have a range (min and max) in the UI. This is
>> another thing interesting... but this signify also to have the presets and
>> not necessarily this resolve all artists' tasks.
> Here <http://registry.gimp.org/node/27608> is a plug in that does what
> you are looking for. I agree that this would be a nice feature to have come

I know this plugin, but I think that this proposal
<http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_wmx3OgdATU0/S38Mjc2ClmI/AAAAAAAABQY/N4vro1dKwCY/s1600/1_key_brush_resize.jpg>
is the better.
The feature on Krita is basically of the proposal above, simple and
effective.

3 - Dynamic zoom
>> A dynamic zoom directly with the mouse or tablet's stylus ... the
>> keyboard shortcut (+) and (-) are difficult to use in painting session.
>> Zoom tool becomes a bit annoying while painting ... every time you have to
>> select via tool box or via keyboard zoom then painting, and to reselect
>> again the paint tool.
>>
> This is honestly one of the greatest features of My paint.  To very
> quickly zoom in and out like this is so amazing. I would add shift+Drag to
> rotate the image once that feature is done as well.
>

My main difficulty to use GIMP and MyPaint together is the 'zoom'... until
this moment is great fight with the keyboard :-)
To have another way to make dynamic zoom, aligned or configurable
(Ctrl+Drag) with the other apps is a great thing.

Thanks,
americo

---

From: Andrew Pullins <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2016 09:00:35 -0500

>> I really like this feature from Krita and My paint but I think it would
be very inconsistent with from the way every other short cut we have. does
switching back and forth between tools using N, P, E, A, and K work for you?

What about this. By default GIMP would remain as it is now, press E to
select the eraser and E again would not do anything. But if you want the
workflow you want you can set a "toggle eraser" shortcut, if set to E
pressing E would select the eraser pressing it again would go back to the
previous tool you had selected.  This way GIMP would stay consistent by
default and if you want to change it to work better in your workflow you
can.

This inconsistency wouldn't matter to you because you set it up and are now
expecting it. On the other hand it would be very strange for a new user if
the eraser was the only tool that toggled like this.

>> I personally turn off the sharing options in the tool options because

Oh OK that sounds good

> Idea: well, the eraser directly, via a shortcut, as we've with pick
color, could be the same tool with a mode blend to erase or to clean the
strokes/stains. Perhaps in this way is more easy to create the conditions
of this feature.

Are you saying to change holding Ctrl from color picker to smudge?

>> Here is a plug in that does what you are looking for. I agree that this
would be a nice feature to have come with GIMP.  There have been a few
brainstorm pages over the years about this topics here, here, here, here,
and here.  I don't know if there is a feature request in bugzilla though.
> I know this plugin, but I think that this proposal is the better.
effective.

I wanted to let you know about it in case you did not.  Also I think that
this plug in could be used as a starting point for this feature. Just make
it a bit more aesthetically pleasing.  I do like in the first brain storm
page you have the option to rotate the brush. I have also see in another
app moving left and right to change the size of the brush, up and down to
change the hardness of the brush.

>
>
> My main difficulty to use GIMP and MyPaint together is the 'zoom'...
until this moment is great fight with the keyboard :-)

Yes it works great in mypaint.

---

From: Americo Gobbo <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2016 12:37:53 -0200

On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 12:00 PM, Andrew Pullins <[email-masked]>
wrote:

> > Essentially yes. The shortcuts we can modify and in many cases to adopt
> a pattern or schema friendly between different apps. Normally in the
> painting tasks, one painter, has his own schema... and in GIMP is possible
> to do a short toolbox to do it. But is not my scope discuss that in this
> thread ;-)
>
This is the ideal approach ("toggle eraser" shortcut => in this way we have
the eraser tool enabled)... Press E key enable eraser... press again E and
back the tool that we are using.

Another approach, but I am not sure if is possible, is to have a shortcut
to enable the paint tool with blend mode + foreground color to erase the
stroke/stain, for example, Addition with white color as foreground works
fine to delete.

The main question here is: we want/need erase or to eliminate a wrong
stroke (this a simple task) or we need the Eraser Tool to make things more
complex? I am thinking that the two options are important... but for me, a
shortcut to delete is main thing in this task.

The two ways to resolve the task... could be to result in different ways to
solve the issue.

> This inconsistency wouldn't matter to you because you set it up and are
> now expecting it. On the other hand it would be very strange for a new user
> if the eraser was the only tool that toggled like this.
Oh OK that sounds good
> Are you saying to change holding Ctrl from color picker to smudge?
No, is only a example, of a thing that is present, of a way to do this...
for instance, now, if we can pick a color, while we are drawing/painting...
we can do it with the Ctrl key press... and the picker color is temporally
enabled.

---

From: Americo Gobbo <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2016 11:27:24 -0200

> also the raster brushes with this feature... that is an unique tool.

On GIMP the Smudge tool is thought to blend strokes or area colors... a
hand-made degrade.
This approach is correct and good to many tasks and areas (photography
retouching, mainly, in my opinion).
Is possible also to use the tool on the painting tasks... but contrains to
think the work in two phases or steps:

1. first, I put the colours or strokes of different colours.
2. after, I blend them with smudge.

In my opinion, but is not a rule, many artists are using the Smudge Tool,
with two steps because they don't have the possibility of a paint tool
where they could to blend directly when they are painting.
To have these two steps not together, become the work a bit more long time
and a bit more cold... but is not a rule too. I am sure, that is necessary
more time to make in this way.
To digital painters, more colourists, this possibility is a great hand to
have a painting more gestual and with more affinity to each artist style.